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Saturday 26 May RNW - NEWS AND ANALYSIS FROM THE NETHERLANDS IN 10 LANGUAGES, WORLDWIDE 24/7 ON RADIO, TV AND ONLINE
Sigrid Deters's picture

Registrar fired over refusal to marry gays

Published on : 10 August 2011 - 2:12pm | By Sigrid Deters (Photo: RNW)
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Finy Wobbes is one of 100 marriage registrars in the Netherlands who refuse to officiate at same-sex marriages. But now her contract won't be extended as long as she refuses to marry gay couples.


 

Discussion

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knirb 24 August 2011 - 7:45am

This issue is a no brainer. Wobbes was rightfully fired. Her biblical arguments are not relevant as she was not performing church weddings. She is correct in saying that it would not be fair to the clients for her to perform same sex marriages. Knowing that her religious convictions would stand in the way of performing her changed duties, she could have sought alternate employment. Instead, she chooses to use her convictions to thwart the hard won legal rights of gay couples.

Anonymous 19 August 2011 - 9:32pm

enough of the fantasy garbage. it doesn't matter which fairy tale you 'believe' in, which fantasy character rules your lives or which book of lies you quote, when you work for the people (government) you provide services according to the law (normally by contract). imagine a policeman who refuses to help you, a teacher who refuses to teach your child, a fireman who won't put out a fire because of their 'beliefs'. no. it's not negotiable, it's totally unacceptable. don't like it, get another job (or be sacked).

Free 15 August 2011 - 9:39am / United States

To all you "Christians": Jesus Christ was a paranoid schizophrenic carpenter from Palestine. Instead of believing He died for your sins, take responsibility for your own mistakes and errors. Religion is a magnet to those sociopathic minded individuals that refuse to take responsibility in life. Jesus died on the cross for you anyway, right?

This woman has no place in modern Holland's government. She should be fired and her pension suspended until she retracts her absurd and Abrahamic ramblings. Shame on you woman.

Hiram1 15 August 2011 - 7:51pm

Response: Free, Yeshua taught what you stated. You stated "...take responsibility for your own mistakes and errors." In the book of John, he stated to Mary, who escaped her physical death, that he did not condemn her for her behaviours. He ended His statement with "go and sin no more." His statement implies he recognised her sin and He was not judging her. When He stated go and sin no more, He was telling her actions were a sin but it was her responsibility to go and sin no more in the sin she had been committing as a prostitue. Free, you talk about mistakes and errors. Who determines those negative actions we call mistakes and errors. If you don't have a moral compass to determine what is a mistake or error, you don't need to take any responsibility for your actions. Why are humanistic behaviours and laws anymore important the laws set by the ramblings of Abraham or Moses? Are you saying the following religious laws are not any good: 1. Honor your mother and father 2. You shall not murder 3. You shall not commit adultery 4. You shall not steal 5. You shall not bear false witness Would you want someone to commit one of these behaviours against you? I don't think so. In reality you are right. The world is a humanistic world and it is the nature of man to disrespect his parents, make false statements, commit adultry and homosexuality, and murder other humans. Humanistic societies have no moral compass as the lady in this article and she will be fired because of her belief that it is abnormal for a man to mary a man. That is the cross she must bear. No cross, no crown!

Anonymous 14 August 2011 - 7:31pm

Matthew 19:10-12
Ruth 1:14 Ruth Naomi
Samuel 1:26 David Jonathan
She has the right to refuse to marry a black and white couple. See Genesis Noach Sem Jafet Cham.

lambertsz 14 August 2011 - 12:59am / brazilie

Well, I actually didn't hear any hateful comment from the mouth of this woman so, using words like 'racism', 'hate' nor 'malice' is absolutely injust. I do not agree with Finy's biblical arguments at all but I respect her attitude and decision. She's very honest and transparent in her opininion and I really respect when she states that ' It's not fair to the gay couple as well'. She's not hating. I really do have more problems with a municipality council which is playing the thing unnecessarily hard and principally: I have no respect for their decision at all knowing that there are civil servants who can do the job. And to be clear and transparent as well: I have no problem with any form of living together.
Groningen, ik schaam me een beetje. Ik heb mijn hart links en ben trots op mijn geboortestad maar ik had van jullie een afgewogener beslissing verwacht en zeker meer respect voor andere meningen.
Willem Rabbeljee

lambertsz 14 August 2011 - 12:50am / brazilie

Well, I actually didn't hear any hateful comment from the mouth of this woman so, using words like 'racism', 'hate' nor 'malice' is absolutely injust. I do not agree with Finy's biblical arguments at all but I respect her attitude and decision. She's very honest and transparent in her opininion and I really respect when she states that ' It's not fair to the gay couple as well'. She's not hating. I really do have more problems with a municipality council which is playing the thing unnecessarily hard and principally: I have no respect for their decision at all knowing that there are civil servants who can do the job. And to be clear and transparent as well: I have no problem with any form of living together.
Groningen, ik schaam me een beetje. Ik heb mijn hart links en ben trots op mijn geboortestad maar ik had van jullie een afgewogener beslissing verwacht en zeker meer respect voor andere meningen.
Willem Rabbeljee

A nony mouse 12 August 2011 - 12:08pm

Hard to find a victim here. Finy Wobbes will work until the end of her contract, then retire comfortably. Gay couples will look elsewhere for someone to officiate over their ceremonies. An ever increasing number of registrars in an increasing number of locations will step up to do the same. The times are changing. Twenty years from now, people will look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

Scott Hightower 11 August 2011 - 5:40am / USA

I do not feel one iota of sympathy for people unware of their own well-springs of hate and malice for people unlike themselves. Every such official driven from public office is an improvement of the system. Don't let the door hit you on your way out!

saskia 11 August 2011 - 3:13am

I support this brave & principled woman ! Go Finy ! Goed zo

James Walsh 10 August 2011 - 11:59pm / Ireland

Gay people are very nice and friendly people and should be allowed to live their own lives if for whatever reason they do not conform to the norms of
attraction between male and female. This attraction leads to a closeness, to the bonding of sexual intercourse, to a union and the ultimate outcome off offspring. This is all enshrined in the civil and or religious ceremony of marriage. Gay people cannot perform the functions of marriage. The Registrar is correct not to preside over a falsehood and should not be punished for her stand.

Anonymous 10 August 2011 - 8:56pm / USA

I support her stance and it is Biblical. We may have to answer to Man down here but we also have to answer to GOD, up there.

Anonymous 10 August 2011 - 7:59pm / NL

Puur racisme en werkweigering. Het is jammer dat ze een contract heeft en niet op staande voet ontslagen kan worden. Alhoewel dat best gekund had, denk ik. Ongelooflijk dat dit soort onmensen het woord "God" überhaupt in de mond durven te nemen. Had ze in een andere tijd geleefd, dan had haar ziekelijke haat voor het vreemde zich ongetwijfeld tegen anderen gekeerd, zoals tegen de gekleurde medemens of joden. Afgrijselijk gewoon, dat zulk soort mensen bestaat.

Anonymous 10 August 2011 - 5:41pm

First they came for the marriage registrars,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a registrar.
Then they came for the teachers,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a teacher.
Then they came for the priests,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a priest.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Hiram1 10 August 2011 - 4:35pm

Romans: "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." ..........Finy Wobbes, you are right not to officiate at same-sex marriages. Don't let their uncleanness make you unclean. Don't let their life of darkness be your stumbling block. You are absolutely right and they know it.

MNO 15 August 2011 - 7:40am

Who gives a damn what Paul said. He was probably in the closet himself. The repressed, hateful, ranting quality of your quote is totally contrary to the messages of Jesus in the gospels.

hallo 11 March 2012 - 4:33am / USA

What message from Jesus are you referring to? Maybe you should read Matthew 7'23.

Hiram1 15 August 2011 - 8:12pm

"He was probably in the closet himself."...You might be right. But, it appears he changed. If you live a lifestyle that conflicts with the quote and it does not bother you, then you should not be concerned. What are the messages of Jesus in the gospels that is contrary to the Teachings of Paul? It is you my friend who has expressed hate and rantings. You have a right to believe as you wish but so do Christians who believe in the teachings of Paul. Therefore, who gives a damn about Paul's teachings? Those who have murdered, robbed, comitted adualtery and homosexuality and found those lifestyle and behaviours unacceptable. Paul was right!

MNO 16 August 2011 - 8:04am

"What are the messages of Jesus in the gospels that is contrary to the Teachings of Paul?"
I challenge you to find a single gospel quote attributed to Jesus that is consistent with the rantings (Paul's) that you have presented.

Hiram1 16 August 2011 - 4:55pm

"What are the messages of Jesus in the gospels that is contrary to the Teachings of Paul?"....Tell me those passages by Jesus that contradicted the quote by Paul and from their we can have an open discussion on the subject. You are the one who who said that Paul's teachings were contrary to Jesus. I gave a quote and you didn't like the quote for your personal reasons. If you are happy and satisfied with your lifestyle, then so be it. In closing the quotes from Paul were guidlines for those who call themselves Christians. Why do you think he brought-up the subject? Is it possible those humans to whom he spoke were living the gay lifestyle; and, just like Jesus, he was telling them to go and sin no more. No, Jesus would have never judged someone for their sin. He would have recognise the sin and gave him/her instructions to go and sin no more. He and Paul didn't judge. They gave spiritual instructions. It is left to the individual to decide.

MNO 17 August 2011 - 7:50am

There is no gospel message attributed to Jesus that has the judgmental, hateful quality of your quote by Paul in Romans.

Hiram1 17 August 2011 - 8:35am

The following quote is credited to Jesus in John 5:46-47: "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" Now go to Leviticus 18:22 which is credit to Moses: "Thou shall not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination". MNO, Jesus's own statement in John is a message concerning your perceived hate of the quote by paul in Romans. Paul was an expert in Mosaic law and Jesus's statement concerning Moses confirmed His believe in homosexuality. Therefore, in order to end this discussion Jesus stated "But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" You either accept His message or you don't.

MNO 18 August 2011 - 4:56pm

Calling your argument flimsy would be an overstatement. But if it satisfies you, congratulations.

Hiram1 18 August 2011 - 6:53pm

"But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?" ...It appears you don't believe Moses; therefore, you don't accept Jesus's belief in Moses. Jesus stated how will you believe in Him if you will not believe in the teachings of Moses. Anyway, regardless of the proof, your attack on my quote had nothing to do with Jesus. You threw Jesus's name out there as an attack but you lacked the knowledged to support your arguement. Paul, Moses, and Jesus were corrected if you believe in the teachings. If you don't believe in the teachings that is your business. He didn't come into this world to condemn anyone. Humans condemn themselves.

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