Homophobic incidents have increasingly been making the news in the Netherlands – once so proud of its international reputation for tolerance. Recently in the central city of Utrecht, homophobic threats and abuse drove a lesbian couple, a gay couple and a transgender woman from their homes. However, there are no reliable figures showing an increase in homophobic attacks.
René Tigges, a 40-year-old gay man, recently moved to Utrecht, unperturbed by the recent reports. He lives in a multicultural neighbourhood and has no intention of changing his behaviour. For example, he doesn’t worry about who’s watching when he kisses a male friend goodbye in the street.
“I just stay myself. If I’m in the street with a gay friend or if I walk him to the station, for instance, then I say goodbye just like anyone else would. I don’t start looking round, thinking ‘Oh, who’s watching, oh no, I shouldn’t do it, because someone might say something.’ No.”
Kissing
Three kisses on the cheek is a normal greeting in the Netherlands, also between urban heterosexual men. Nevertheless kissing between men can draw horrified reactions from young Dutch Moroccans. And it is against such young men that complaints of homophobic abuse are most frequently directed.
One young Moroccan in Utrecht claims gay men only have themselves to blame. “They draw attention to themselves, act a bit disgusting. It’s not on, is it? If you’re doing your shopping then you start kissing. It’s disrespectful, isn’t it? Yes, it’s a provocation, you know what I mean. Man-woman, okay, but you’ve got to show a bit of respect.”
Wilders
According to another Moroccan in his twenties, teenagers are usually behind the anti-gay abuse. They learn nothing about homosexuality at school, and there’s a fierce taboo on the topic at home. Meanwhile, he says, far-right Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders adds fuel to the fire with his anti-Islam politics.
“It’s also mainly to do with Wilders. He’s fighting against Islam so they want something to fight against too. So they pick gays, because Geert Wilders stands up for them. That’s what I hear from the youth in the neighbourhood.”
René Tigges is a regular at Bodytalk, Utrecht’s only gay café. On several occasions, along with other customers at the café he has been on the receiving end of abuse from young Dutch Moroccan men: “Filthy homos, faggots, that sort of thing.”
Police on the scene failed to intervene during one such incident, according to Mr Tigges. However, Utrecht city council is soon to set up a special emergency phone line for victims to report homophobic violence.
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Three kisses on the cheek is not a normal greeting among the native Dutch heterosexual men. They normally just shake hands or something.
Three kisses on the cheek is however a normal greeting among Moroccan and/or Muslim men, especially the older and traditional types. I guess only the kissing between non-Muslim men draw horrified reactions from young Dutch Moroccans.
You guys just devalued the points you're trying to make by invoking me...
And I still say that it is absolutely none of our business whether persons are heterosexual, homosexual, bi-sexual, gays, lesbians, transvestites...to each its own as long as one person doesn't force the other. What has all this got to do with religions?
Oh great, we now blame Wilders for anti-gay violence by scummy Moroccan men. Really it shows EXACTLY what Wilders is saying. Certainly some Moroccan men have a brain in their head, but the ones causing violence SEND THEM HOME...period. No more packages from Yemen and no more scum from Morocco.
don't worry, after great support to Wilders, no one thinks that Netherlands is a tolerant country anymore.. so bring it on all the hate you have inside for all this years !! well done Wilders..
The suggestion that Wilders caused the bullying of gays by exposing it, is ridiculous. The issue of pervasive intolerance toward gays and increasing harassment by Moroccan youth was already a very significant issue ten years ago when Pim Fortuyn brought it into the public debate. These youth chose to pick on gays because of existing prejudices, not because Fortuyn, and now Wilders have shone a light on the problem.
Beware of the political leaders who use homophobia as a wedge issue to promote their own issues. It's not just one ethnic group, or religious outlook, it's a political tactic to isolate then eliminate one group, then another until all opposition is gone. The 20th century should be an object lesson for all of us.
I'm a native Oregonian living in Amsterdam. You don't get it. Wilder's isn't homophobic
He supports gay rights. He opposses immigrants who don't assimilate, especially those from Islamic countries who bring their dirty culture and intolerance to the Netherlands. These Muslims are the homophobes noted in this article, not Wilder's or Fortuyn (who was himself gay) before him. You might exercise your critical reading skills in the future so you don't write yet another non-sensical comment that demonstrates your ignorance. As for Wilders, he reminds me of the old school Oregon politicians like McCall who had the guts to do what's best for the state..
unlike the gutless wonders from the state house to the governorship to the Congress and Senate we have today.
I'm a native Oregonian living in Amsterdam. You don't get it. Wilder's isn't homophobic
He supports gay rights. He opposses immigrants who don't assimilate, especially those from Islamic countries who bring their dirty culture and intolerance to the Netherlands. These Muslims are the homophobes noted in this article, not Wilder's or Fortuyn (who was himself gay) before him. You might exercise your critical reading skills in the future so you don't write yet another non-sensical comment that demonstrates your ignorance. As for Wilders, he reminds me of the old school Oregon politicians like McCall who had the guts to do what's best for the state..
unlike the gutless wonders from the state house to the governorship to the Congress and Senate we have today.
This is not merely a problem with Moroccan youth nor isolated to the Netherlands , attacks and violent assaults directed particularly towards gay men and trans females by teenagers and adolescents are on the increase internationally , as is apparent by the protest marches and demonstrations in Amsterdam , Rome , London Manchester and Liverpool this year , I am also aware via the gay press of an alarming rise in such assaults and murders across the United States and Central and South America, It seems that such a rise goes unchallenged around the world for fear of upsetting the religious elite and their hierarchies , if these ever increasing "fashionable" assaults on our lifestyles by popular music and trends in terms of language i.e. the words gay as a negative and fags, and by religious doctrines promoting intolerance , rejection and hatred go unchallenged then the situation can only get worse , particularly in uncertain times when economic and social upheaval and unrest demand scapegoats in order for society to vent its frustrations , it would seem that we as LGBT people are fast becoming target number one for the ignorant and bigoted and that it is not a priority to challenge effectively this trend .
What on Earth is the matter with people? We have to hate something or someone or our day is not fulfilled? Unless there is lude behaviour - by any couple of any inclination - it is none of our business.
"... it is none of our business."..........Sure, it is Vera or you would not have posted your comment. You made it yor business to tell the world, via RNW, that people have no right to speak out for what they like or dislike. If gays have a right to tell the world that marriage as it has been know for thousands of years is not just between a man and woman; why, can't a non-gay speak freely about his or concerns of same-sex marriages? Your statement " Unless there is lude behaviour - by any couple of any inclination - it is none of our business."......Vera, who decides what is or isn't lewd behaviours? You stated "unless there is lude behaviour". Lewd (obscene/indecent) is subjective from person to person and I would bet a larger percentage of persons in this world believe that homsexuality is lewd (obscene/indecent) and should not stand as equal to man/woman marriage. The only problem is: Gays don't view their lifestyle as lewd but as natural; therefore, they have an agenda to force governments to change the laws to fit their agenda and punish anyone who speaks out against their lifestyle. Regardless of their sexual preferences, they, too, have a right not to be threatened or harm and they, too, need the respect those who disagree with their lifestyles.
Thanks Haram again for sharing your illiteracy with his.....always so thoughtful....btw, if we are taking a pool I vote your "lifestyle" as lewd and indecent.
Thanks, alanposting but I already stated that in a previous post. Don't you remember when I made a comment that "everyone' is entitled to speak freely according to their perceptions. Go watch a Judy Garland movie and relax because your vote is a write in and if you don't spell Hiram correctly it doesn't count. Be nice, okay. It reflects poorly on Judy Garland movies and how they affect others.
And who is stopping you from speaking freely about your concerns regarding same sex marriage
Hiram ? This article is not even about same sex marriage it is about homosexual people being violently attacked and assaulted on our streets , presumably by people who share your prejudiced mindset and outlook . Incidentally there is nothing new about same sex marriage , it has been practiced since human beings have walked the earth , it has been recognised throughout history and there are religious texts and blessings which accompanied and been written to accommodate them throughout human history , your own archaic outlook , disdain and prejudices do not entitle you to respect but to pity for your lack of compassion and basic humanity . SOM PEOPLE ARE GAY , GET OVER IT .
"This article is not even about same sex marriage it is about homosexual people being violently attacked and assaulted on our streets , presumably by people who share your prejudiced mindset and outlook ."....Can't you see that your statement for any lack of compassion is on the same level as those who make threats against gays. As to your statement "your own archaic outlook" states that homsexuality (once viewed as a norm) is no longer an "archaic" mindset but enlightment. If you what you say is true, I wonder why the gay community is on an agenda to suppress the right to freedom of speech to those who speak out against such a lifestyle? If Gays, through their agenda, have a right to say what is isn't or is lewd conduct, don't you think think they should show "pity" and respect for those who do not believe as they do? I know you don't but it was general question. The gay community is a social culture and their culture values are important to them but it appears they don't have respect for anyone who believes different from them. Maybe, that is why is there is so much conflict in the world. No respect and only "pity" for those who disagree.
What are you talking about Hiram , you have freedom of speech , however with that comes accountability for that speech, when it threatens the well being and safety of other citizens it is a crime , unacceptable , when it instigates hatred , intolerance and violence it is a crime and not acceptable , you have to realise that what you call the GAY COMMUNITY and HOMOSEXUALITY are terms and concepts which refer to actual HUMAN BEINGS , real PEOPLE , who deserve the right to live not in fear of assault either physical or verbal when going about their lives from those who would condemn and cause them harm either physically or psychological with taunts and insults , no one does this to other people in a civilised society , The gay community has an agenda to make sure the kind of oppression and murders it experienced under the rule of Adolf Hitler is never repeated again , lessons were learned from that experience , and whether you like it or not is immaterial, as society has evolved beyond discriminating on grounds of race , sex and sexual orientation , perhaps you would like to go back to the days when also black people and women had no vote or rights , it is the same thing , the same agenda , you are not allowed to violate the rights of black people or women and the same is now true on grounds of sexual orientation , the world is no longer flat , get used to it , you may not abuse me in the streets, you may not threaten me with violence and you amy not incite others to . Far to many gay people have died in concentration camps and are still being persecuted , tortured and murdered for us as a "community" to not challenge those who would oppose our freedom and equality , we are all free to think and communicate, we are not free to threaten violence and murder nor to stir up prejudice and intolerance , all of our mothers children deserve the same equal human and civil rights . You enjoy your freedom of speech Hiram, no one is stopping you , but be aware of the power of words and their consequences , and that you may b held responsible and accountable for them , something you say could contribute and result in a young person being assaulted or murdered and that would be your responsibility and you may not ever be held accountable for it, but it will still nonetheless be a result of your diminishment of the value of someone else's life by your prejudiced attitude, actions and words .
What I hear you saying is: "Freedom of speech is okay unless it contributes to some form of violence." Now, if what you say is correct, then people who support the gay lifestyle should never say anything that conflicts with the culture of those who who do not support such a lifestyle because it also contributes to violence. Therefore if what you are saying is true, then gays should not openly and verbally make accusations but remain silent. I believe a gay person has a right to speak freely and I also believe non-gays have a right to speak freely. What you consider as "prejudiced attitude, actions and words" is subjective and selective. I consider your verbal/written attack on my opinions as " prejudiced attitude, actions and words" and when you make such attacks you contribute "indirectly" any adverse actions on others throughout the planet. This is what I heard you say. In a free society people are allowed to speak freely; whereas in Adolf Hitlers's Germany there wasn't any free speech. Many people died under Hitlers Germany because the Germans did not tolerate free speech and I believe the government (especially) the British are on the same level as Hitlers Germany by banning of free speech. As to gaysthey have a right to liveas they please and openly support their beliefs and so do non-gays. You can't have it just one way. If we did we would be living in Hitler's world.
You are attempting to confuse issues an distort my words in order for you to silence those who condemn violent acts of aggression and prejudice , you are the voice of confusion , your mind is in confusion , you are living in the 21st century not the early 20th century , you didn't hear a damn thing in fact you have your hands over your ears and are shouting so loudly that you will never hear anything but what you wish to hear and what is agreeable to your "flat earth " mentality , you wish to deny gay people their humanity , but it avails you nothing because you are long past your sell by date , You are the weakest link Hiram , GOODBYE :)
What I hear you saying is: "Hate speech doesn't exist, and it's acceptable the Nazi party was allowed to spread lies and propaganda against the Jewish people."
I would disagree with this. I think you would too if you gave it some thought.
"What I hear you saying is: "Hate speech doesn't exist, and it's acceptable the Nazi party was allowed to spread lies and propaganda against the Jewish people."...........JW, what I hear you saying is you didn't pay attention about the point on Hitler and it was: "He didn't allow free speech". JW, what I also hear is: "Your thought process is biased." I wonder what would cause such a biased statement such as the one you made? If you would give it some thought, I think you would see that the lies and propaganda against the Jewish had nothing to do with their demise in Germany. In closing the Germans (the government) murdered thousands of people (many of them German citizens who were non-Jewish) just because they spoke freely. Numerous Germans disagreed with Hitler and paid the price for speaking out. JW, when I find the stats and and any old German videos of trials of Germans who spoke freely against the Hitler government, I will post the information for you to view and read; otherwise, I know you will not believe it unless it is a stat or video. Give it some thought, JW, if Holland is a safe place and crime is not on the rise there, then Wilder's speech against Muslims and Islam should have caused some of the same problems and caused crime to vastly increase but it didn't, right? You did say Holland was a safe place didn't you?
Propaganda was used to foment hatred and mistrust of the Jewish people and other groups. Without such a campaign, it would have been less tolerable for citizens observing the disappearance of their neighbours. Propaganda was employed to distract people from the actual fate of those who disappeared. It should not be permissable to tell people that an ethnic group in their midst is stealing their children and drinking their blood. A reasonable person would accept this.
That you hate Muslims has been made abundantly clear. What surprises me is that you wouldn't defend or protect the victims of the Holocaust either.
Final note: You might want to rethink the wording of the few couple of sentences of your last comment. They don't make make any sense.
JW, nothing makes sense to you unless it is a stat or video and you still wouldn't believe it then. JW, personally I like Muslims if they don't murder others. Sort of like: I like humans if they don't murder others. The only problem withyour perception is: "Your perception of clear is like flying a plane in a fog without a GPS device." You lack the perception ( mental GPS) to perceive what does or doesn't make sense. JW, it really isn't your fault, you were conditioned to think and speak as you do because of your belief system that only you have a right to form an opinion and express it. Things don't make sense to some people because they lack knowledge to understand or don't want to understand. Me, thinks you fall somewhere between the two. Bye.
By continuing to avoid the topic being discussed, you lose credibility.
To refresh your memory. You are trying to defend the Nazis' right to assert that Jewish people kidnap children and drink their blood.
JW, I would defend your right to speak freely. JW, do you believe Jewish people kidnap children and drink their blood? I don't think you do. I don't think you would believe such accusations unless you had proof; therefore, just because someone makes an accusation, everyone doesn't believe the accusations. No, JW, in a free society gays have a right to speak freely about their belief system even if offends Christians, Muslims, or Jewish. Your logic states if free speech offends and causes someone to act out then it should be limited. Don't you think when gays speak out for their rights and offend non-gays in their religious believes, it offends and causes some people to act out. JW, everyone doesn't believe as you do and I can se why.
Freedom of speech is important. But hate speech is real.
Hate speech was a contributing factor in the slaughter of minorities by the Nazis in Europe.
And by others in the former Yugoslavia.
And by others in Rwanda.
There should be some control over what citizens, groups, officials, and governments can say. If speech is unrestrained, tragedy may loom for a minority or powerless group. It's happened too many times before. These are facts.
"One young Moroccan in Utrecht claims gay men only have themselves to blame. 'They draw attention to themselves, act a bit disgusting. It’s not on, is it? If you’re doing your shopping then you start kissing. It’s disrespectful, isn’t it? Yes, it’s a provocation, you know what I mean. Man-woman, okay, but you’ve got to show a bit of respect.'”
I' m sorry guys--but if you want to experience respect,you also have to pay respect to others! If you don't want to see two guys kissing in public and you think it is disgusting so your kissing a woman in public also can be disgusting to others! If you want to be so pure so do not kiss a woman in public!!!And if you want to be the saint so do not judge others!
It seems displays of open humanity such as affection, fondness and self expression are now to be frowned upon and used as an excuse to vent violence , aggression and hatred , strange and reminiscent of totalitarianism as expressed on the streets of Nazi Germany in the 1930's and across their domination of Europe in the 1940's, Freedom of expression and tolerance is a mark of civilisation , violation and curtailments of these freedoms is a mark of barbarism and savagery, as the Netherlands knows to well from past experience where these kind of crimes lead us.
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