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Hitting children is good - says churchman

Published on : 15 September 2009 - 3:24pm | By RNW News Desk
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Should a religious leader be able to preach that hitting children is a good thing to do?
 
A controversial Evangelical preacher has hit the headlines here in the Netherlands after telling parents to hit their children and keep on going even when the children start crying from the pain.

 
The preacher, who has three children himself, first hit the headlines a week ago when Dutch newspapers reported that he was advocating beating as an essential aspect of child rearing. Now the public prosecutor has confirmed that the man will be prosecuted after making the controversial statements.
 
Bible
The Algemeen Dagblad newspaper reported the Pentecostal minister, Gertjan Goldschmeding, as saying:
 

"If you interpret the Bible literally then it says that you can hit your children and that you can continue until the will of the child is broken."
 
The quotes come from a recording of a sermon given in 2007, which the newspaper has acquired.
 
"Children realise after a couple of times that the hitting stops when they start to cry, so they start to simulate this. So you have to keep going until a real change of heart is visible, until the child shows real remorse," he said.
 
The minister, from the ACC Jouwkerk in the central Dutch town of Amersfoort, went on to add that leaving scars was not allowed but 'leaving marks on the body was no bad thing,' according to the newspaper.
 
The preacher made the comments during a conference on discipline and raising children. In an interview with Radio Netherlands Worldwide he confirmed his belief that hitting children is an essential part of parenting.

Police investigations were sparked when a member of his congregation went to the authorities saying he wanted to stop members of the church following the extreme advice.


Rod

Goldschmeding is also on record as saying that the Bible says that parents should use the 'rod' in bringing up their children. He explained that in his view this meant using a stick rather than a wooden spoon  because, 'kids wouldn't feel anything from that.'

 
Asked about this statement by Radio Netherlands the preacher said:

“Yes I did say this… what I mean is that if you are going to hit your child and they are not really convinced by it then you might as well not do it. The child must realise that they have done something wrong and realise that they don’t want this to happen again.”

 
He went on to say that he denied the allegations that his theories on education were tantamount to child abuse saying his comments had been taken out of context elsewhere in the media. He said that hitting a child was always a difficult decision and should be done in a clear context of a loving family and as a means to correct deviant behaviour.
 

In a statement on the church's website Gertjan Goldschmeding say he is for open debate on issues of raising children and discipline and that he thinks that the pending prosecution is an attempt to stifle his freedom of belief.
 
What do you think, should the minister be able to make these statements without fear of prosecution?

The Amersfoort Christian Centre (ACC) was founded in 1994 by the then pastor Ford Pickering and his wife Debbie. Pastor Ford came to Europe from his position as assistant pastor of the Bethany World Prayer Centre in Louisiana in the USA.
 

 

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Discussion

Anonymous 24 February 2010 - 5:09pm / United States

This should be respected as freedom of speech. The reverend is absolutely wrong. Parents should not beat their children, and parents who do should be punished. However, he did not beat any children is entitled to his opinion.

If his speech is not allowed then nobody's speech is safe. What's next? Can governments arrest people for taking a side either pro or con in a debate about nationalizing/privatizing some industry? They could argue that the person is either advocating violating property rights or advocating allowing rich people to violate the common people depending on which side they take.

When some subjects are put beyond debate it is a slippery slope to a closed society.

Orli 12 October 2009 - 9:45pm
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ArtfulROger 23 September 2009 - 12:02pm
I am of two minds on this and agree with the first post: all children are not the same. Depending on the society too, whether there is a nuturing environment where children repsect authority, and actually use it to their advantage, or, as we see so much in the West - the situation is an unruly mob of gangs that speak back to their parents, won;t behave and spend their lives on Iphones and in front of television. Some kids need a smack. Not beaten, but a smack. Get their attention. If you've ever tried to teach a class of young people, it's be clear this is not an easy issue. A lot of literature, art and math was taight in the borstal systems...
randall filan 21 September 2009 - 5:29am
bullying behavior is not acceptable...not now, now here, not ever. speak out against violence.
jasmin 21 September 2009 - 3:32am
Boy, 3, is youngest crime suspect in Britian London: A three-year-old boy has become the youngest known suspect in a British criminal inquiry, after cops investigated him for disorder and vandalism. The kid is among 10 kids aged five and under investigated for crimes, since May. Police officers from Strathclyde police went to his home after receiving a complaint of damage to household property, reports The Times. The increasing number of real-life enfants terrible is raising concerns among criminologists and social workers. Chris Grayling, the shadow home secretary, said the figures were worrying. "This is a clear manifestation of the first signs of offending," he said. "These instances underline the very deep social problems we have in some parts of the country. It is part of the very complex picture we call broken Britain," he added. Source: ANI
Jan 20 September 2009 - 1:51am
Hitting children, rape, murder, incest, polygymy, slavery. The "good book" says all these things are okay. Christians generally cannot think for themselves, that is why they accept this craziness.
Pass a fist. 19 September 2009 - 7:20pm
Would the preacher get angry if someone hit him with a stick, just because they thought his behaviour was "bad"? Someone twice his weight and size, with a large stick, and hit him until he cried and screamed in pain||||? Perhaps not, eh... but who knows, what comes around, usually goes around.
anonymous 18 September 2009 - 7:36am
Listen to his CDs, are earn him lots of cash - that's what these slick modern churches are all about, big bucks big business, the same old same old.
Zoe Z 18 September 2009 - 7:34am
Hmmh - so what's the solution then, just let kids run riot? Discipline is good - there are too few vales in our consumer societies.
Cynthia Palent 18 September 2009 - 7:31am
I agree Lewis, well said, there is simply no excuse for saying this and no amount of words can justify it - this is the reason that the vast majority of people in the Western world, i.e those who have had a decent education,have turned their backs on religion. It was nice back inthe Stone Age - now we have science and universal human rights.
Ravi Autar 18 September 2009 - 7:28am
Hitting kids is wrong - and don't give me this 'loving famlit context' nonsense. If your God demands that you hit your kids then you are better off without him.
Ford Pickering 16 September 2009 - 8:04pm
Don't take Goldschmeding's words out of context listen to all his cd's on the subject. He helping parents to raise their children to be successful in society. This is about freedom of speech for churches in Nederland.
Jan Jansen 16 September 2009 - 4:26pm
Give the man a break - what's wrong with the odd smack? Sometimes kids need to be brought into line, especially in today's anything goes soociety.
Lewis 16 September 2009 - 2:29pm
Physical and emotional abuse are usually inseparable. But as someone physically beaten as a child who subsequently, as an adult became the leader of a team of social workers specialising in child abuse, I can assure readers that emotional abuse is often worse and frequently more difficult to heal. In a wider context of physical and emotional violence, the ‘Reverend’ Goldschmeding’s statements reflect the main element in current US foreign policy in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere, i.e. ‘beat them until their will is broken’. A policy that is also colluded with by the Netherlands amongst other states who support the fictitious ‘war on terror’. Not only may the ‘Reverend’ beat his children into submission, his comments inflict emotional violence on all who hear them.
Johnny Giles 16 September 2009 - 8:47am
In God we Trust?
anonymous 16 September 2009 - 8:46am
This guy is obviously a religious nutter - so you express love for your children by hitting them and this is justified by a stone age philosophy that is still valid in 2009, I think not.
jasmin 15 September 2009 - 8:09pm
You cannot have a hard and fast rule to bring up kids. Not all kids are the same, and not all react similarly. As a parent, you have to treat every child as per his inherent nature. My father rarely used a stick to discipline us, his scary frown was enough to terrorise us. However, he never shied away from slapping us, if he needed to punish us. However, I never used stick to discipline my kids, my booming voice was enough! However, there are kids, who understand only the language of a stick. In my view, it is better to be slapped by your parent in private in formative years than being slapped by strangers or police, in later years. The other day, as we treated rural kids in our mobile van, we discovered to our horror that one of the school kids-an eight year girl, had opened the purse of my colleague and taken out Rs 100! She was unrepentant on being caught! Her teachers were summoned, who were very sorry for her behaviour. They told that the girl was beaten severely by her father some days back, as she had stolen his money. Instead of getting a lesson, she had pick-pocketed an auto driver, a day before! We did recommend exemplery punishment and counselling for her, so that she grew up to be an honest citizen and not a criminal who would spend her life behind bars!
Canada Dave 24 September 2009 - 4:39pm
In your last comment I read that she needed correction: "so that she grew up to be an honest citizen and not a criminal who would spend her life behind bars". While I agree there needs some intervention here, I don't think she will spend any time behind bars as a criminal if there is no change. Why, because it seems people can do just about anything, repeatedly, and there still is no 'punishment' like jail time. Even drunk drivers get suspended licenses, fines that never get paid, probation... Any person can choose to misbehave. They will have to repeatedly beat and injure people, steal, forge checks, sell stolen property, buy, sell and use drugs... it goes on and on until what happens? - adjournment after adjournment until a judge throws everything out because it took too long to be dealt with - suspended sentence or plead guilty to a far lesser non-serious crime - failure to appear, adjourned repeatedly finally with an arrest warrant issued that police never execute, and a fine that will never be paid - and on, and on, and on.... I just think we've lost the ability to correct or change peoples' behaviour anymore. Part of me wants to return to a harsher, stricter society but that's just why our Canadian soldiers are fighting and dying in Afghanistan - to stop a strict, religious-based Taliban domination of Afghans. So, what are we trying to do in our societies anymore? Are we liberal, making decisions based on academic research and 'best practices' or are we strict enforcers needing to push back against criminals and keep our communities and families safe? Anyone have an idea? Thanks. Canada Dave, Alberta Canada

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RNW - NEWS, ANALYSIS AND BACKGROUND IN 10 LANGUAGES, WORLDWIDE 24 HOURS A DAY, ON RADIO, TELEVISION AND THE INTERNET