Religion-based schools should mention homosexuality in their sex education lessons, just like other Dutch schools do, according to liberal MP Boris van der Ham. His view is that pupils in orthodox Christian or Islamic primary and secondary schools need this kind of education as much as any child.
The MP's plea coincides with Thursday's debate on the issue. In a joint letter to parliament, six well-established national organisations involved in sexual education are asking for homosexuality to be included as a mandatory topic in the sex lessons. The groups, including the national gay interest group (COC) and teenage gay group Expreszo, point out that most schools ignore same-sex relationships. In Amsterdam 82 percent of schools were found to stay silent about the topic.
"Sexual education gets only a minimal mention in the national curriculum. This enables many schools to avoid it altogether," Mr Van der Ham told news website nu.nl. Publicly funded non-denominational schools also wriggle out of giving this kind of education, he says, proposing that funding is cut when schools leave the obligatory sex lessons out of the curriculum.
A similar proposal was recently rejected by Deputy Ministers of Education Marja van Bijsterveld-Vliegenthart and Sharon Dijksma.
Freedom vs. freedom?
Freedom of religion is not at issue here. Mr Van der Ham's position is that schools are allowed to determine how they teach, but they cannot change the targets set in the national curriculum. Educators in denominational schools are often worried that teaching about homosexuality may plant unwanted ideas into children's heads, and will offend the parents.
MP Van der Ham, on the other hand, considers sex education which explains homosexuality essential to combat discrimination of gays and lesbians. "It also helps gay teenagers to feel respected," the liberal MP said.
"Too many children are raised with a homophobic moral. In cities that happens in immigrant families, while in the country many native Dutch families have such prejudices. It is up to schools to correct misrepresentations."
Boys and girls
Mr Van der Ham is pushing for better sexual education not just in the interest of homosexual people, but also to improve relations between the sexes. "Being treated respectfully by boys is important for the sexual independence of girls."
Research shows that a quarter of girls and women aged between 15 and 25 have been subjected to sexual violence in some form.
Two weeks ago Deputy Minister of Public Health Jet Bussemaker announced she was budgeting extra money for the sexual education of boys.
In a letter on sexual health policy to the Dutch lower house the minister wrote she wanted to tackle prevailing double moral standards. Research has shown that many teenagers think boys who have many sexual partners are cool, but girls with the same behaviour are dubbed whores, she said.
(Photo: "Sometimes I like other girls, so what?" - FlickR/Alex Dram)
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as a 69 year old bi male born in holland and left there at the age of 12 .
i have known all my life that i prefer sex activety with males.
i pesonally think homo/bi people is all about sex.
without sex we are all straight.
lets not kid our selves homo life style has become a fad and most people wil get over it . and thats a fact.
This is so hard to explain to kids. You really have to be prepared when you do this. There is a lot to explain.
O God please save me from religious people for they have put their brain on hold.
Waywardness isn't fortitude, and lavish isn't stigeon.
Let Dutch Justice Minister Ernst Hirsch Ballin and liberal MP Boris van der Ham, decide what's good for Dutch kids...they both have opposing views...
Give me chastity and continence- but not yet.
@ Elisabeth:
Did God create Adam & Eve?? or did God create Eve & Eve to be together? C'mon God made Adam & Eve as a reflection of Him! You're right God is LOVE, but God HATES sin...don't just read parts of the bible and think you can get away with what your doing.
And believe people are NOT born gay, they become it....it's a choice! And I know countless of Gay people who have trusted God and God changed them completely and are now happily married (with the opposite sex offcourse).
It's still not to late Elisabeth, God is indeed loving and forgives all that repent and he can help you get out of that lifestyle so you can be SAVED.
You guys are SO much missing the point, here!
I do not believe for a minute that God could see a loving relationship between two people, whether they're black, white, homosexual, heterosexual, disabled or whatever, as a sin. How on earth could that be a sin?
I know you guys make this HUGE issue out of the fact that we, by coïncidence, happen to be loving partners of the same sex. But I can tell you that only men make such an issue of it, and not God. As I told you before, love is the key message, and all the other stuff is nonsense. The only reason why men make such a fuss is fear. They're scared of anything in the world being different to the conservative view on things. To all these people I can only say: poor you, if you want to embrace life, be open-minded and focus on the key message!
In addition, I want to stress again that people are BORN being a homosexual, bisexual or a heterosexual. It's nature. Could you, as a very convinced heterosexual, be ever in love with someone of the same sex? You can't imagine you can? Well, there is your proof!
People who are forced into a sexual relationship against their natural desire, because society thinks it should be that way, are NOT happy people. (Unless they're bisexual. In that case they can have a relationship with either sex)
Yes, there was Adam and Eve, but what about black people then? And disabled people, etc. According to your beliefs, all these different kinds of people are not what God intended! Wonderful theory!
I hope God will forgive people like you, Harim and Carmen, because you commit a sin by discarding and judging people like me. That is not christian at all! You are the sinners!. Get out of your darkness and respect the christian values of love and tolerance. Or are you too stupid to understand these real values of life and to look beyond superstition, prejudice and fear? Poor you. Be saved!
Carmen, G-d is a Spirit and He is Love and His love does not accept the following human activites because His temple is the human body and He does not reside in the desecrated temples of humans who live the following types of lives: "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."......... Also, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power.
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ?".........."Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh." But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him."............ Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body. Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s."..........These quotes are from Corinthians. Being a Christian, onced saved, means one should live Christ. A Christ-like person does not live the life as a homosexual and G-d and His Spirit does not reside in temples of homosexuals. If one truely believes he or she is a Christian, he or she will not destroy the temple where Love resides.
Hiram is a big liar: you cannot find homosexuals nor sodomites or anything that points to homosexuality in Corinthians. And who-ever told you what's in Gods spirit and where He will reside?
"And who-ever told you what's in Gods spirit and where He will reside?".......The Christian bible tells via Paul (Saul of Tarsus). G-d's Spirit also tells me. I am sorry if the words of G-d offends you and that is also the reason why Christians don't want the government teaching their chidren that homosexuality is good and righteous; especially when it is not. Once a person becomes a Christian, he or she will indulge in activities that are not Christ-like. He or she, just like Mary, are forgiven of their previous sins and just like Mary are to go and sin no more. One just can not live the life of a Christian and be a homosexual.
Luckily I live here in Europe. Where we teach our children to have an open mind. Where children learn to think for themselves without christian dogmas. Here in the Netherlands most schools already teach children that a certain percentage will be gay and that that is okay. Only a few very strict christian schools refuse to educate this way. And guess what, we do have some christian gay movements here.
You better get used to it, things are changing for the better even in the USA.
"Luckily I live here in Europe. Where we teach our children to have an open mind.".....Fredv, do open- minded people call people liars when they disagree with someone with a different perspective from themselves? Therefore, what I hear you saying is "Europeans are open-minded people who teach their children not to research someone's claim but to to refute them by calling them liars." Fredv, one definition of open-minded is "receptive to arguments or ideas." { You stated "Here in the Netherlands most schools already teach children that a certain percentage will be gay and that that is okay." Why do "most schools" in the Netherlands promote (teach) that a certain percentage will be gay? Why does the government need to teach the morality of homosexuality especially when it should be left to the parents to teach their children morality? Why should the government teaches it's dogmas of a sinful lifestyle of homsexuality to children? { You stated "And guess what, we do have some christian gay movements here."......What you have is not Christianity but the opposite of Christianity ( I'll let you do the research to find out what is the opposite of Christianity.) People who say they are Christians but continue to live a gay lifestyle are not Christians." { You also stated "You better get used to it, things are changing for the better even in the USA." Fredv, my message was to those who call themselves Christians but live contrary to the teachings. Therefore, those who wish to partake of such a lifestyle is their business but there are those who would rather not live in Darkness.
The original text does not speak of homosexuals. Probably easy translating. Has nothing to do with open mindness
Christians poise the minds of their children with their ideas from the age of 3, so it is a good thing that governments sometime tell another story. Children don't become gay by telling about homosexuality and it is not something you "choose" for. I feel happy, respected at my work and respected and loved by my family. I work together with many nationalities and different religions. It's not God's word as you said before that offend me, but people like you with their mis-interpretations telling me that I live in the dark. Here we call that narrow minds.
This was my quote "Therefore, those who wish to partake of such a lifestyle is their business but there are those who would rather not live in Darkness.".......Fredv, there are those who wish to live in Darkness and then there are those who wish to live in Light. Just as in Sodom, there were those who lived in Darkness and they wanted Lot's visitors to partake of their sins. Those Sodomites of today are just like their grandparents of Lot's day. They want everybody (including children) to be drawn into their Darkness. If one is "narrow-minded" because he or she don't want their children to be taught that the act of homosexuality is good, then being "narrow-minded" is the proper path. { Fredv since I gave Corinthians as a source and it appears you do not accept the scripture as proper instructions for living a as a Christian and my quote was not true, please don't get upset because as it says in the Book of John "And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it." { Governments should not be instructing children morality.
As I stated before, the old original script does not speak about homosexuals. Your whole story is based upon a false translation. It is so sad to hear people like you judging people who share their life in loving and sharing with each other. What happened in Sodom was rape and has nothing to do with the love two people of the same sex can feel for each other. If you think two people who share their life in loving and caring for each other live in the dark so be it. Maybe one day you come to better understanding.
I rest my case.
"Maybe one day you come to better understanding."........I hope not my friend. "I rest my case."....... Your evidence is too overwhelming for me. I concede!
You find homosexuality only in modern bibles.
The older script talk about young male prostitutes and paedophiles.
As long as the world is filled with carmens who think their believe is the only answer, whether they are christian or muslim or whatever they believe, the world will not change and be full of hatriot.
And carmen read your bible again, in God is no hatriot, but when you are standing in front of Him he will ask you about your hate, your ignorance and how you treated gay people. Most gay people already fled intollerant Aruba and now live in the Netherlands far away from the carmens of this world.
Can I just say that I am a very happily married woman (with another woman). We have two lovely kids, they go to kindergarten, and we both work. We have a house, a car etc. We have family, friends, neighbours, etc. who love us. Our life is in no way different to any heterosexual couple. I am very happy living in Belgium, I must add, where I never meet anyone saying such nonsense. Here, no one even blinks a eyelid when I say I am married to a woman. I am very open about me having a wife, and not at all embarassed or ashamed about my life. On the contrary, I feel very lucky I can be with a woman who understands me very well. We have a very strong and loving relationhip. The children get all our love and attention, and I am sure they'll be happy, open-minded people when they're grown ups, with a lot of love to give themselves. It's all about love, after all. Why people make such a fuss about the fact that two people love each other and want to share their lives with each other, is beyond me. God is love, and I honestly don't think at all he is remotely interested whether this love is between heterosexuals or homosexuals. As if that would preocupy him! Belgium is a bit of an exeption there, in that catholicism here is very liberated. So, we got married legally, but also in a church and had a wonderful wedding. Our priest 'blessed' us. Family and friends are still talking about this wonderful wedding; a very happy occasion. I wish all heterosexuals and gay people in the world the same experience. And to all those 'christians' out there who think they're interpreting the Bible well by discarding gays, I can only say this: you are wrong. This is not what the Bible says, it's all about interpretation. The key message is: love. And it is not christian at all anyway to discard anyone.
The less ignorant people are about other peoples' lifes, the less hatred there will be. So do please inform kids about homosexuality: it is a part of nature, it is there, whether or not you like it. People do NOT choose to be gay, they were born that way. They only want to be treated in the same way as other people do. Wouldn't you? Also, by informing kids about the different possibilities, you give them a head start in life, where they can completely be themselves and develop in a natural way. If, at a later stage, they discover they're homosexual, they are not disturbed by it, but can exept it as a part of nature. It really is, as some animals are homosexual too (there is scientific prove of that). You can't possibly defend lying about natural things! Our kids need to know how nature works.
Because I do not understand homo-sexuality, I DO NOT condemn it. I also do not understand the need to invade other countries to steal, rape, and pillage and I DO condemn it.
I often ask the religious zealots why THEIR god approves of, and encourages stealing, lying, torturing, raping, and killing other human beings (and I am not referring to Muslims, Sikhs, Budhists, etc. as the zealots) but disapproves of some thing that causes you and me NO problems. They as a group (odd choice of word) do not roam the world subjecting religious, ethnic, racial, heterosexual groups to stealing, lying, raping, torturing, stealing their oil, or killing them do they? HOMOS do no harm to you, me, and just about every one else in this huge world, and YOUR god disapproves of this?
I guess lying, stealing, raping, torturing and killing are NOT sins defined in the zealot's (dare I say holy
books written by men, printed on paper, also by men) because these non sins are practised by such a wide range of believers?
Once more, I do not understand homo-sexuality and I don't condemn it-------and you condemn it?
It can't be explained---then you explain that it is a disorder of personality!
They break social norms and rules (yours or mine?)
If gays are public enemies what are thieves and killers?
Gays and lesbiens are illegal in Indonesia! How about murderers, thieves, rapists and other
NON-DISORDERS of personality?
I wonder whether any gay haters in Indonesia refused to accept donations
from the gays who wished to help after the last weather disaster.
You've got a lot of nerve expressing your opinion about gays and lesbiens! You must surely realize that YOU do not have that right. That right is reserved for the "holy book" kissers before, during, and after having robbed, raped, tortured, and killed their quotas for the day. Your use of the words "gay person" must be perplexing the "straights". How can we condemn you if we don't know how your body
is constructed?
I have an idea! And no it isn't the only one that I have had this year!
It's up to you, but you can do it.
Find all the gays in the world--call it a religion, elect a pope, or popess (female equivelent)
(see I am gender neutral) show the righteous how powerful you are and invite them to try to join your hmm let's call it religion and have them obey THE RULES! Send money! 10% of their annual income
could suffice!
Aren't many of the sins from the last 2,000 to 3,000 years been converted to ills and ails?
I was thinking maybe the god inflicted BLACK DEATH was changed from SIN to sick.
Agenda in the schools?
Unless my English comprehension has slipped badly I can't find "a gay agenda"! Maybe if they were trying to get 'elected gay' they could and would have an agenda! But asking educators to explain homosexuality with out interference from the holy fraternity can hurt NOBODY! We could also keep cancer a secret.
**The problem now is the bad state of our planet and how we need to save it from getting worse**
Perhaps the state of our planet would be better if all the killing in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Lebanon (add to the list if you wish) were stopped. But no! It is mostly people with dark skin that are causing them selves to be killed!
**The gay lifestyle (I have never had the chance to read THE GAY LIFESTYLE magazine) is one of the causes why our planet is in such a bad state**
Gay life style? Bet you couldn't point out a "gay" in a crowd of people. I can't either.
** Millions of people have died from HIV and easy to research how and why it placed our planet in such a bad state.**
I would be inclined first to count the people who have died from lung cancer, car crashes, killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Palestine, and New York City.
How many people died from HIV last year?
**As to: "Please let gays/ lesbians and everybody be what they want to and how they choose to, as long as we causing no harm to this planet of ours."**
Well I absolutely agree. Leave them alone and go after the bigger, better killers. Maybe go after the greedy people who are quite willing to see our planet die so that they can play with their HUMMERS on the week ends.
**I would also say please let the children be and not indoctrinated them into such a dangerous lifestyle.**
If you can indoctrinate me into cancer then children can be indoctrinated into the 'gay' life style.
** Live as you please but please don't go around telling the world that the gay lifestyle is good especially when it isn't.**
Sadly I missed the meetings praising the "gay life style", and I haven't read the "GAY LIFE STYLE" magazine so unlike you, I am not familiar with the "gay life style." And no! I do not want you to tell me how you know that the "gay life style" isn't good. I am happy in my ignorance.
**You also stated "And how on earth is this affecting the cause of climate
change or the deterioration of this planet."**
Oddly! I would also be inclined to ask the same question. For the humour if nothing else.
**Gays are pushing their agenda in order to change what they consider as a negative, climate condition for their lifestyle.**
Once again your definition of "life style", and now "climate condition" escapes me.
** I think you were talking about the weather conditions on our planet but they are trying to change the negative climate towards gays by those who don't support their lifestyle.**
That is surprising.
** In conclusion, if you must live such a lifestyle that is your right but hose who don't support your lifestyle have the same rights and therefore they, like the gays have done, should stand-up and speak-up against it.**
I think that I may just agree with your last sentence, depending on your definition
of "life style".
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