A Catholic priest in the south of the Netherlands has stirred up controversy by refusing to allow the local Prince Carnival to receive Communion because he is openly gay. Father Luc Buyens of the small town of Reusel took his stand at last Saturday’s Carnival Mass.
Carnival is a major public holiday in the southern Netherlands: shops and schools close and normal life grinds to a halt for three days of fun and festivities. An important part of the tradition is the election of a Prince Carnival, often a prominent member of the local community, to lead the Carnival celebrations. This year in Reusel, the honour fell to openly gay resident Gijs Vermeulen, who made no secret of his five-year relationship with his partner Michael in the weeks leading up to the celebrations.
Both the Catholic church and Carnival are very much part of the social fabric in the Netherlands’ southern provinces. The two are closely linked, since the Carnival festivities mark the start of Lent, a Christian period of fasting and renunciation leading up to Easter.
Carnival Mass
In his capacity as Prince Carnival, Gijs Vermeulen was due to address the congregation at the Carnival Mass and then lead them to receive Communion. But one week before the festivities were due to start, Father Buyens called Gijs to tell him that he would not allow him to take the sacrament. The Catholic Church officially condemns homosexuality and priests can refuse to administer the sacraments to practising homosexuals, though the Dutch clergy rarely do so.
"I was on the phone with him for almost half an hour," Gijs Vermeulen explained to Dutch gay magazine Gaykrant. "I told him we’re not living in the 14th century anymore but he wasn’t prepared to change his position."
Equal treatment
In the end, Mr Vermeulen attended the mass because he did not want to spoil the celebrations, but he continued his discussion with the church on Thursday. "I want to be treated the same as everyone else,” he insists. “I'm a Catholic. I made my first Communion and took Confirmation."
The renewed discussion has not brought the two sides any closer together. After his conversation with Father Buyens, Mr Vermeulen told the press that he accepts that the church is entitled to exercise its rules, but he is saddened by the nature of those rules.
This may not be the final word on the controversy. Today’s AD newspaper reports that a Labour councillor from a nearby town has called on the gay community to protest at the church in Reusel until the priest admits the error of his ways. Both Father Buyens and Gijs Vermeulen have declined to comment on the initiative.
© Radio Netherlands Worldwide
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You people have to be kidding me. According to the strictest lateral interpretation of the Bible, we have to at least go to confessionals once a year, we can't have premarital sex, are not allowed to masturbate, are not allowed to use a condom or contraception, we are told stories of creationism and the first people of the earth are Adam and Eve (yes we're all incestuous brothers after all).
If similar arguments apply, then a female Catholic priest would be denied communion just because the church disagrees and disapproves of such titles being held by women. This is an egregious violation of modern democracy and I believe Jesus personally would be bothered by this as well. After all he created men and women to be equal.
Some people believe being gay is a "choice", I would like to ask then is being Catholic, Jewish, Buddhist, or Hindu a choice as well? How dare you to ask them to change "themselves" when they have as much of a "choice" as you?
Interestingly there are verses in the Bible that encourage violence against non-believers of Christian faith, demand complete submission of women to men and reveal tales of polygamy, encourage slavery, forbid the consumption of shellfish and the wearing of two different fabrics on one person, ban working on Saturdays and Sundays, viciously attack divorce and remarriage, and call for mass murdering of women considered to be witches and holder of dark powers. Hell some fundamentalist priests even condemn the reading of Harry Potter. Yet some disgusting individuals want a scapegoat and pick gay people as the perpetrators of the worst sin. I wonder what should satisfy these hateful individuals: a gay Holocaust?
AngieRS, a person born with black skin, white skin, or any other skin can not help being born as such but one makes choices in life by how they were taught or conditioned from birth. You attempt to justify your actions by making excuses when you say a person is born to be homosexual. If that was case, those priests who sexually abuse children could claim they were born to do so and not be held accountable for their abuses. People make choices in how they live and not because they were born that way. It's all about choices and homosexuality is a sexual orientation . { In the case of the man who couldn't get Communion from his priest because he refused to give-up his Gay lifestyle. He has the right to live his life as he chooses but he knows and the priest knows that one can not be given Communion in the Church because homosexuality is a sin in which the Church teaches against. { One should not call himself a Christian and not practise the tenets of the Christian faith. Statements like "Like I said, put the "holy" book down, get thee to a library and start reading. And don't come back until you've finished them, I'll be asking questions later." No thanks, I prefer not read books from sodomites who want to draw everyone into such a debased lifestyle. Why must the priest give Communion to a person who professes to be a Christian but chooses a lifestyle that contradicts the teachings of the faith? Was he really wanting Communion with Christ or was there another agenda?
You argument is fallacious.
What about someone like me, who was born both Black AND gay?
Like you, I'm sure, I don't remember ever "choosing" my sexual orientation.
When in your past did you wake up and decide you were straight? Oh, never?
That's my point!
"Like you, I'm sure, I don't remember ever "choosing" my sexual orientation."......I am sure the pedophile priests don't ever remember choosing their sexual behaviours, either; but; one can be assured they weren't born to be pedophiles. They were conditioned by an acquisition of learnt behaviors at very critical stages of their lives. It is a slow process of learning and one doesn't remember how and why they became the person they are. Behaviours can become positive and negative. The Christian Bible via it's teachings classifies homosexuality as a negative behaviour that can be changed but it's left to the person, who calls himself/herself a Christian, to decide. Nothing more and nothing less. One decides because one has choices and not because of birth.
"You argument is fallacious. What about someone like me, who was born both Black AND gay?"...Becuase you claim to be black and gay, doesn't make my arguement fallacious. There are people who are born black and not gay. If one is born black or white, one can not change the colour of the their skin but if one is gay, one can stop the behaviour, i.e. sexual acts. One's colour of their skin is not behaviour; whereas, a sexual act is behaviour and controlled by the actor. Saying one is born to be gay is a cop-out to avoid the stigma of one's behaviour. If one is proud of being gay and living the lifestyle of a gay, that is one;s business but don't make excuses about being born Gay. Why? Gay is a lifestyle and a sexual orientation not something forced upon one's self by birth like coulour of the skin.
Yes, Hiram, I speak about homosexuality the same as I do about skin colour because they are intrinsically the same thing. The skin colour you are is the one you are born with. You can do nothing about it. The sexuality you have is the one you are born with. Do you really truly and honestly think, that a man, would choose what you call a homosexual lifestyle and willingly become a target for every violent homophobe, a target for every bigoted priest and live a life of fear, of insecurity? No, deep down, you know it and I know it and so does everyone else but you people with a religious bent just cannot find the courage to admit you are wrong. It's no good quoting the book of leviticus, not one of you actually abide by every word of it. If you did you'd not be on here and probably be serving a term of imprisonment for violence. No, you cherry pick, a sentence here, a few words there. You all seem to forget the special friend that jesus is said to have in the bible. More than just good friends, I'd say but you won't want to hear that, because your bigotry and maniacal belief in a an unproven (please, no crying statues or potatos looking like the baby jesus) deity, a belief based on nothing more than the writings of men who weren't even around when your jesus was alive. What do they know, how could they know? Take a look at your ten commandments, well, not ten, more like three hundred and ten but you won't be doing what they tell you to do will you? No, not on your life. I guess that makes you a heretic then, your punishment is stoning to death. I don't think you're going to like that. Like I said, put the "holy" book down, get thee to a library and start reading. And don't come back until you've finished them, I'll be askng questions later.
Sex and sex-appeal seem to be the keynotes of the whole "religious civilization".
When will some of you people get it into your heads that being Gay is not a lifestyle choice. You are born Gay or Lesbian the same as you are born black or white. Never mind what your church says, get out and get an education, do a bit of reading that doesn't come from scraps of a book put to gether a thousand years ago. Really, I'm surprised you allow yourselves to use computers or cars. Very sad.
"When will some of you people get it into your heads that being Gay is not a lifestyle choice. You are born Gay or Lesbian the same as you are born black or white.".........Homsexuality is a sexual orientation and the persons who commit homosexual acts do so because of their life's conditioning. One being black or white is not a very good comparison. Committing homsexuality acts are choices. What I hear you are say man does not have the ability to make choices in his actions and therefore is not responsibility for murdering, pillaging, committing sexual crimes against others because he or she is born to do so. Homosexuality is a choice and a person has a right to make such choices but people, like the priest, have an obligation not to give Communion to people who call themselves Christians but continue living in a sin that the Church has found not healthy to one's spirit and lelationship to one's faith. No, people commit sexual acts, rob and steal, and murder and pillage because of choice and they ake their choices because of conditioning either by positive or negative tokens of rewards. {The priest was right not to give a person Communion to a person who lives a continous life of homsexuality. Being a practising homsexual is contrary to the teachings of the scriptures. The priest was being drawn into Communion of sodomite people who have no love for the Christian church. They want to make the Church into Homosexual temple in order to sastify their lusts.
Hiram, since you're not gay you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You seem to make it a point to rant negatively about this subject whenever you have a chance. Human sexual orientation is a gift from God, just as being Black or White or Asian is. Nothing that God makes is wrong, so being gay is not wrong. It's the simple-minded and hateful people [like yourself] that refuse to understand this and make life on Earth hard for those who do understand. Unless you change your uninformed attitude, I doubt that God will not be too happy with you when you ultimately meet. Save yourself from your hate, Hiram & save yourself!
"waiting for you to evolve, please!".......If "waiting for you to evolve, please!" means that homosexuality is the final point of evolving, then I don't want to evolve. You stated "Nothing that God makes is wrong, so being gay is not wrong."....What I you saying is: The creator creates everything therefore what he makes is good. The Creator makes the humans who rob, steal, rape, and pillage therefore they and everything they do is good or in your words not wrong because G-d made them. { As to the subject of the article: The man declares himself to be Christian, wants Communion from his Christian priest, but doesn't want his priest to speak-out against his continious lifestyle of homsexuality. If he wants to be a homosexual and live the lifestyle of homosexuality, it is business but it is the business of the priest not to give Communion to a person who will not stop sinning. In closing a homosexual, murderer, terrorists, or any person can be a Christian and be forgiven but they are to stop their sinful acts and sin no more.
Allow me to correct myself. Unlike some I at least have the capacity to admit when I am wrong. I cannot agree that a homosexual person cannot be a Christian, however willful homosexual behavior is an abuse of grace according to Leviticus 18:22 because God clearly states there that it is a sin. However, not picking-up garbage on the sidewalk when you know you ought to is also a sin and God cannot tolerate any sin regardless how big or small. Such is the whole point of the cross. So perhaps we don't need to make a mountain out of a mole hill, you're saved by grace. Yet if I know I'm not right with God, I do not partake in communion. That's a far-cry from defacing Christianity in a carnival and then slapping the priest in the face for denying me communion. That's psychotic!! And self-aggrandizing to boot. It is the embodiment of criminal behavior. Homosexuality has very little to do with any it, come-on people see what I see.
What's with the "waiting for you to evolve" nick? I find it interesting so many people talk about evolution as if they know what it is and turn a complete blind-eye to abiogenesis, without which evolution has no case. Tell me when you've solved our little inconvenient problem with protein homochirality, kthxbye. I wonder if you turn a blind-eye to other things too, such as Leviticus 18:22? Priest-code or not, the tail part of that verse couldn't be more black and white about what God has to say about it. But you know we're actually both skipping over the real issue here: Homosexuals who expect to be Christians. About as sensible as an ape who expects to swim at the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. Here we have a complete and total lack of responsibility, and I will venture to say completely psychotic. If some of you are so easily offended by my hard-to-swallow words, and are quick to label it as discrimination then I'm afraid you'll never understand my perspective. But that's nothing new to me.
According to Catholic Church people who practice homosexualism make a serious sin. The same as people from other religions do not eat certain kind o meat etc. Knowing that this person is a gay he had a right to refuse him Communion.
I would not mix this particular situation with other priests who occured to be pederast. This would be the same as calling all community of Austria sex perverts because there was one Joseph Fritzl. It is not true and it disonest. I know a lot of priests, very good people who would act the same like Father Buyens. And I as Catholic expect this kind of attitude towards such situations as it is in line with our beliefs. There is something wrong with "catholicysm" of this gay as he should know that this religion does not accept such sexual practices.
"Would mr Buyens have refused the eucharist to his pederast colleagues (USA,Ireland, Germany,etc) and the bishops that protected them".........Should the priest refuse Communion to an openly gay person, who prefers to live the lifestyle of a Sodomite and not one as Christian, regardless if it is one of his "pederast colleagues" or the one mentioned in this article. Yes, he should refuse and I believe he would refuse those priests. { "I was on the phone with him for almost half an hour," Gijs Vermeulen explained to Dutch gay magazine Gaykrant. "I told him we’re not living in the 14th century anymore but he wasn’t prepared to change his position."..........What this person did indirectly was to tell the priest his decision was wrong and the spiritual scriptures were wrong about the lifestyle of homosexuality. If he doesn't believe the priest and the scriptures are right, then why waste your time and effort to get Communion? What is his agenda towards the priest and the Church's doctrine on homosexuality? Is he and "others" trying to mold the Christian Church into a Homosexual? Why would a person, who knowlingly calls himself a Christian and live the lifestyle of an openly gay, challenge the Church about Gay relationships? If, one says he loves Christ and wants to have a personal relationship with Him, he doesn't need Communion from a priest. He would simply follow the teachings of Christ as taught by Christ and his disciples. If he believes in Communion and understands and "believes" what Communion is, then he will sin no more. The priest was right! Communion should not be given to a person who lives a lifestyle that is anti-Christian. Question: Do you know the religion that teaches and practises just the opposite of what Christianity teaches?
Sex scandal haunts Catholic church in the Netherlands
Published: 5 May 2009 17:40 | Changed: 6 May 2009 11:55
The late Catholic priest Joep Haffmans upheld strict rules for everybody in Gulpen except himself: he embezzled money for the poor and had a string of girlfriends. Now one of them is suing the diocese of Roermond for compensation.
The bishops in the U.S.A.knew that mr. Geoghan, mr Hanley. mr. O’Grady and many many more were commiting those awful acts.
However, until the intervention of Justice they were never refused the eucharist.
Speaking of a double standard. You are nothing, the hierarchy is everything. People like mr. Buysen and his bishop makes it difficult to get a grip on those radical hatemongering imams.
Just because their are numerous so called Christian priests doing evil, doesn't mean this priest has to do likewise. If, I were a Catholic and I knew the priests were not teaching and practising Christ's teaching, I would leave it. Why would a Christian want to have Communion with Christ and be part of a church that has homosexual priests as it's spiritual leaders? This is the crux of the article. This is the crux of the news article: If homosexuality is such a problem in the Catholic church and one man complains that the Church should be giving him Communion when it shouldn't be, he is supporting your arguement. This is a reason why openly gay individuals shouldn't be given Communion because they want to live in sin sin constantly and call themselves Christians. As Christ said to Mary: Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more. One just can't be a Christian and continue in such a lifestyle and that includes priests. Go and sin no more is the message the gay person doesn't want to accept because Darkness blinds the truth to his gay lifestyle!
"Today’s AD newspaper reports that a Labour councillor from a nearby town has called on the gay community to protest at the church in Reusel until the priest admits the error of his ways.".......The Catholic priest was correct in not giving Communion to an openly gay person who constantly lives in sin. Homosexuality, according to Christian values, is a sin. Why must a Catholic priest admit to an error of his ways when it is not he but the gay person who is to admit his errors (sins) and go and sin no more. {Communion is " A Christian sacrament in which consecrated bread and wine are consumed as memorials of Christ's death or as symbols for the realization of a spiritual union between Christ and communicant or as the body and blood of Christ". If this quote is true, an openly gay person (communicant) who refuses to live according to Christ and his disciples' teachings can not have a spirtual union with Christ. The priest was correct! If you are a Christian, take the time and read what the scriptures have to say about homosexuality. Christ told mary your sins are forgiven. He didn't tell her to continue her life of sin. You can take Mary's name out of the quote and to any homosexual, drunkard, or glutton and say the same thing. Sinning no more is the first step of becoming a Christian. Communion is for the Christian and it is a bond between Christian men and women.
Would mr Buyens have refused the eucharist to his pederast colleagues (USA,Ireland, Germany,etc) and the bishops that protected them
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