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Utrecht, Netherlands
Utrecht, Netherlands

Battle brewing over single-sex classes for Muslim women

Published on : 13 July 2009 - 2:46pm | By Loretta van der Horst
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Utrecht city councillor Marka Spit says she is going to ignore Dutch Integration Minister Eberhard van der Laan's plan to abolish segregated integration courses as of January 2009. Various Dutch media report that the two politicians, both members of the Labour Party (PvdA), disagree on whether segregated integration classes benefit or undermine the emancipation of Muslim women in the Netherlands.

Dutch law requires nearly all newcomers to the country, other than European immigrants, to take a combined Dutch language and integration course, either inside or outside the Netherlands. The requirement, however, also applies to immigrants who have already been living in the country for some time.

The idea behind offering separate courses for men and women is to attract Muslim women who would otherwise not - be allowed to – attend because of their faith. Marka Spit says women should, at the very least, be offered the option of following the course in a single-sex setting.

Only a third of all immigrants living in the central city of Utrecht are required to follow the course. Out of a total of 100 classes currently offered in the municipality, 15 are segregated: 12 for women only; three for men.

Mr van der Laan announced his plan to end segregated courses after reproaches from the Dutch parliament’s Lower House about the practice being in conflict with the basic principle that men and women are equal.

Intolerance
Integration is a sensitive issue in the Netherlands, especially since the country’s famed ‘tolerance’ appears to have declined in recent years, as evidenced by the growing popularity of Geert Wilders' anti-Islamic Freedom Party (PVV).
 
Marka Spit told Dutch newspaper de Volkskrant that the government restriction on single-sex classes obstructs emancipation.
 
"Our policy is to make as many people as possible acquainted with Dutch language and culture. Every new obstacle decreases the turnout. It would be a pity if  certain groups were to stay away. The aim of the programme is to have people participate. That is also possible in a separate women's class. Such a group could actually promote emancipation."

Ms Spit is bothered by the minister's suggestion that offering separate courses is associated with dependency and oppression. "Some women feel more comfortable asking questions in separate classes. It doesn't mean that they will separate themselves from men entirely."

Earlier, a ministerial investigation into the matter showed that 85 percent of Dutch municipalities agree with Mr van der Laan. Utrecht councillor Marka Spit,  however, will not be complying with the policy.

 

(lead photo by FaceMePLS on Flickr)
 

Discussion

cole 27 July 2009 - 3:30pm
Segregation for emancipation !! This is the question - do you run an Islamic country or do your run a western one !! By saying that the women wont be allowed to attend classes - supports Laan's argument of the dependency and oppression of Islamic women.
sandra 24 July 2009 - 6:33am
Oops, sorry Hiram, I didn´t mean to sound insensitive towards men. I know that sometimes there are nagging housewives too. But don´t you agree that sometimes it is nice that there is a seperation for men and women if they choose to have all women or all men classes so they don´t get on one anothers nerves? lol
Hiram 24 July 2009 - 10:41am
Sandra, I surely do agree with you. I go fishing all the time and I don't put any hooks on the line. Sometimes my wife will ask what I caught and I just tell her I didn't but will have to go back fishing on the next day to catch dinner. Thirty years later, you would think she would catch on! :)
sandra 23 July 2009 - 3:05pm
So long as woman and men are making an effort to integrate, it should not matter if a woman wants to have an all women classroom. I think this is nit picking and a waste of tax payers money to bring this up in the tweede kamer. There are other all women types of things in the Netherlands like certain health clubs or all men health clubs etc that has nothing to do with Islam so lets not be hypocritical here. Beside that, sometimes as a woman myself, it is nice to learn in a classroom with just women and not feel uncomfortable. We women have our moody times and need our space away from our husbands just like the men go off to hang out with the guys without their wife.
Hiram 23 July 2009 - 8:54pm
"We women have our moody times and need...." Did you mean to say "We women are moody most of the times and need our space away from our husbands in order to give men some freedom from their wives. {European men have it a lot worse than Muslim women. Both are subject to extreme abuse but no one cares about the rights of men.
Anonymous 21 July 2009 - 6:01pm
Living with Muslims makes me feel unsafe and uncomfortable, I wish I could live in a country without them.
Anonymous 20 July 2009 - 6:05pm
A woman is like a teabag-only in hot water do you realize how strong she is.
Hiram 20 July 2009 - 10:02pm
"A woman is like a teabag-only in hot water do you realize how strong she is."....I have drunk a lot of hot tea and each bag of tea tasted different. Never judge a woman by a bag of hot tea. Tea, whether hot or cold, is judged by several factors and one is the flavor and the flavor is caused by the way it is grown and by the people who grow it. I prefer a good cup of tea that is refined, sweet and thinks it is tea and not coffee. You can keep your strong cup of tea!
Anonymous 21 July 2009 - 3:28am
You leave the tea bag 30 minutes in hot water, and you'll find out how strong she is!.
Anonymous 21 July 2009 - 3:23am
Stated in another way: the female of the species is more deadly than the male.(Ask Rudyard Kipling).
Hiram 21 July 2009 - 4:22pm
"Ask Rudyard Kipling"........When I met him, I will ask him. {"the female of the species is more deadly than the male"...../Which species? {...." more deadly than the male"......How did you come to that conclusion? By reading "The Man Who Would Be King?"
Anonymous 21 July 2009 - 7:17pm
Read "The Female of the Species" by Rudyard Kipling.
Anonymous 17 July 2009 - 11:06am
The article states: "Dutch LAW requires nearly all newcomers to the country".....Dutch LAW! Therefore we do not need to create any courses to "attract" muslim women who are not "allowed" to attend these courses. If these women do not attend they should be removed from the country. Period.
joop 18 July 2009 - 5:24pm
yeah but the point is not just to get them to sit in class. it is to get them to actually learn something and many believe that some muslim women learn better without men around. i tend to believe this is true. just forcing people to do things is not enough and accomplishes nothing.
Anonymous 17 July 2009 - 10:50am
If people from another culture and religion are going to live here then they have to change to fit into our culture. If they do not want to do that then they should find a country that suits them rather than trying to change ours. Our polititians should stop trying to be politically correct, "bending over" to help those that are not trying to fit in. "When in Rome"....so when in Holland.......
user avatar
Ronald v Bosch 17 July 2009 - 2:58am
Let's look at the background of these people. Their's is a "stone-age" culture that treats women as second class chattels which must be clothed in layers of black material. Living in modern, progressive society means learning about the equality of the sexes. In a co-ed classroom a beginning is made where the two sexes actually can hear each others ideas and share. By separating we continue the separation and subjugation of one group over another -- and never the twain shall meet. If we want to foster sexual equality we must begin by creating as many opportunities as possible where the two are exposed to each other in different settings. How else are the men to learn that the women are just as intelligent and have valid opinions of their own?
James 15 July 2009 - 5:23pm
If there was no muslim immigration there would not be this conflict. Muslims wouldn't have to be subjected to the culture that seems to make them so uncomfortable, and the Dutch wouldn't have to continuously change their customs and values to accomodate this group. Why is it the Dutch who have to change, Muslims know that men and women share classrooms together. Muslims want to come to the Netherlands, why does the Netherlands have to change to accomodate them? It doesn't make any sense, why not immigrate to a familiar country like Iran, Dubai, Pakistan, why go all the way to Europe and then complain because the hosts are so different. Europe is being used and abused.
jasmin 15 July 2009 - 5:06pm
Let the women choose the setting they feel comfortable with, why make it a huge issue?
osita 15 July 2009 - 12:58pm
By telling a woman she 'MUST' take a mixed-sex class is depriving her of her choice. It's nice to see all the nice western men depriving her of her CHOICE. Ironic how many people perceive muslim men as oppressing muslim women, and then western men want to do exactly the same, if not worse. As a western woman, none too young, I would rather CHOOSE a class where I felt most comfortable; I personally would be uncomfortable in, say, a class full of younger people who were able to learn Dutch at a faster pace than I could, and I would fear asking questions as it would hold others back: ie: my learning would be impeded. In addition, most (western) studies into education are advocating the return to single sex schools/classes because people learn much better in single sex environments. Maybe it takes a woman to understand how another woman would feel, and I think Marka Spit should be applauded for her stance. Not to mention, a place where women can meet other women who are 'in the same boat' and in a none-too-alien environment, is only the same as western ladies joining American Women Abroad (Expat) groups, etc: it helps them to build support networks and new friendships in a new country. Forcing muslim women into mixed classes they dont feel comfortable attending, is the equivalent of treating someone with a fear of heights by making him stand repeatedly at the edge of a cliff.
Steve 15 July 2009 - 4:57pm
Osita, I agree with you that people learn better in a single sex environment. I would advocate keeping these segregated classes if it could be proven that it is the WOMAN'S choice. Many times the woman's husband practices the same level of control over his wife as he did in their native land. If that is the case it is equivalent of keeping her oppressed in the society that considers itself one of the freest in the world. That too is wrong.
Steve 15 July 2009 - 4:57pm
Osita, I agree with you that people learn better in a single sex environment. I would advocate keeping these segregated classes if it could be proven that it is the WOMAN'S choice. Many times the woman's husband practices the same level of control over his wife as he did in their native land. If that is the case it is equivalent of keeping her oppressed in the society that considers itself one of the freest in the world. That too is wrong.
Peter Sullivan 14 July 2009 - 3:06am
Not a big deal. I'm sending my children from the age of 13 to a single sex school here in Australia and we're not Muslims. Single sex schools are quite common over here as I'm sure they are all over the world - nobody even raises an eyebrow. Not sure why being Muslim makes any difference to this argument? Keep single sex schools I say :-)
Steve 14 July 2009 - 4:01pm
My point was only this is a class to teach the students about Dutch culture, which is non-Segregated and open. The immigrants have taken the first step and moved to the Netherlands, now they need to find out what it means to be Dutch. I agree children probably learn better in a single sex setting. This is comparing apples to oranges. The Dutch need to get tough and tell these immigrants, "In Europe men and women are equal, if you don't like it there are plenty of other places to live". I think integrated classes are one of the best ways to do this.
Hiram 14 July 2009 - 1:17am
"Marka Spit says women should, at the very least, be offered the option of following the course in a single-sex setting." Marka Spit is right. Offering the course in a single sex setting is beneficial for both women and men. How can a Muslim woman, who has lived under strict Islamic values, be expected to learn under extreme stress. It takes time to overcome a new culture which conflicts with the one a person is raised. Let them learn in a single-sex setting.
Anonymous 17 July 2009 - 10:43am
Because she lives in Holland a woman must do it the Dutch way. She should do as we do here or go to a country that fits into her beliefs and HER laws.
Hiram 18 July 2009 - 6:45pm
"Because she lives in Holland a woman must do it the Dutch way." Why must she it do the the Dutch way? Just because one lives in Holland, doesn't mean one has to live the Dutch way. I lived in the Netherlands and I didn't do it the Dutch way when it came to smoking dope or supporting abortions (murder) of innocent babies. Now, I know the smoking of dope or murdering of innocent babies is not just the Dutch way. I only want to know what the "Dutch way" is...just in case I every return to such a beautiful place, again. Boy, I sure miss those Krokettens/Bitterballens! Now, that is the Dutch way.
joop 13 July 2009 - 4:08pm
the goal is to get as many people as possible into these courses and offering women-only meetings probably helps more women participate constructively. and if they also have the option of attending co-ed courses then let them choose which they want... and moreover, part of the cultural instruction is to develop an independent sense of themselves (as their own people separate from their husbands), and taking a course away from their husbands probably helps this. forcing women to take the course with men probably diminishes the effectiveness of the lessons being taught-- so for that reason i think the women-only courses should stay.
Steve 13 July 2009 - 3:36pm
I like how Mr. Wilders has been mentioned in the article as an example of how Dutch tolerance is eroding. How about the fact that women are FORCED to engage in segregated education or they can not attend. Immigrants beat homosexuals and rape un-covered women. Then the community leaders blame the women for the rape because of their clothes. Is this not a better example of intolerance? Speak up about the freedoms you are losing to a foreign way of life and people like Geert Wilders would never get, nor would they need, even one elected seat.
Steve 13 July 2009 - 3:34pm
I like how Mr. Wilders has been mentioned in the article as an example of how Dutch tolerance is eroding. How about the fact that women are FORCED to engage in segregated education or they can not attend. Immigrants beat homosexuals and rape un-covered women. Then the community leaders blame the women for the rape because of their clothes. Is this not a better example of intolerance? Speak up about the freedoms you are losing to a foreign way of life and people like Geert Wilders would never get, nor would they need, even one elected seat.

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